Sunday, September 06, 2020

Humans and animals

A few days back I had a small argument with a complete stranger on Instagram! The gentleman wanted to claim that homosexuality is unnatural. Someone pointed out that it is found in 450 species in nature. Then the person argued that comparison with animals is illogical because we humans are better. That is when I pointed out that there is actually no difference between humans and animals. In fact, for most parts, animals are way more well behaved than humans. To that, the person replied that dogs sniff butts before choosing partners and I should do the same if I believe humans are the same as animals. 

That made me think. Scientifically speaking there are hundreds of research which suggest the power of olfactory cues which we humans use subconsciously in our day to day dealings. Them why don't we sniff our dates? Because we are shamed. Because we have construed social norms which tell us doing so is not "nice". And, we all want to be "nice". We have our "ego" which stems from the I-factor or identity. I shall not go into the musings around the reason behind the emergence of this I-factor. Oriental philosophers have done an extremely thorough analysis of this

Let us start from the fact that we have this I-factor or identity. This sense of self is very unique to humans. A few other animals may have a basic sense of identity. This can be treated as a separate sense-organ. Again, this is not my invention. After a little bit of Googling I found that the Buddhists have always treated mind as a sense organ. And every sense organ needs sense-objects. Just as we have an internal drive to eat nice food, look at a nice sunset or smell the roses similarly we have a need to satisfy our "ego". 

It is very clear now. At a functional level, we are exactly the same as animals. We just have one more sense-organ to satisfy, the "I-factor" or "ego". Does that make us superior to other animals? Well, if you believe that a man with eyes is superior to a man without then yes. However, no sane person will even remotely consider a blind person inferior. In fact, all the other senses of a blind person are much sharper. In the same manner, animals are not inferior to us. In fact, due to the lack of the extra sense-organ ("ego") their other organs are mostly much sharper than that of humans. 

I sincerely thank my Instagram-stranger for making me see this so vividly. 


Left right human brain concept. Creative part and logic part with social and business doodle

Saturday, July 25, 2020

Can we have less numbers and more stories, please?

The countries with more poverty and/or more inequality are facing a tough time in controlling the current Covid19 pandemic. Anyone living in the countries having an extremely high number of infected patients can confirm that people are less careful now than they were a few months back. Why is it like that? Of course, an obvious reason is that people are fed up with the long lockdown periods. We shall briefly discuss another possible reason, viz. statistics!

Because of my background and profession, I am a strong believer in numbers and statistics. We engineers can achieve amazing things by putting our trust in numbers. So much so that I would dare call myself a follower of dataism (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/npqu.12080)! I can trust my data. I can calculate the uncertainty of a circuit if I know the uncertainties of individual components. Then we can give an estimate of the number of years after which one would definitely need to consider replacing that circuit.  (I.e. I take numbers as input and give numbers as output!)

But, let us say you tell me that the fatality rate from road accidents in Cape Town is 47 per day and that in Delhi is 5. And then you ask me how more careful should I be on the roads of Cape Town? I do not think I have an answer. Or if you ask me what more should I do in Cape Town roads to be more careful? I do not know! Do these numbers make me 9 times more careful in Cape Town?! I am pretty sure it does not. What does it even mean? (I.e. do not expect behavioural outputs from me by giving me numbers as input!)

The point is that, as expounded elaborately in the book "Thinking, Fast and Slow", humans are not designed to appreciate statistics! This is a major reason why putting a lot of number in daily news helps no one. Rather it makes our mind numb and makes us more careless.

What can be done? Remember the statement by good old Stalin: "a single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistics"? Numbers rarely create emotions! What we need are more stories and fewer numbers. Even a single real story of real people will be more effective in hitting our empathy-spots and will help us relate to the realities. If we want qualitative output (of people becoming more careful and taking more precautions) then we need to give them qualitative input (of other people) and not quantitative. 

I would sincerely urge world-media to push more stories of Covid19 patients and their families: stories of both suffering and rejoice (on getting better), and try to limit the statistics. 

Saturday, July 04, 2020

Modern psychology in Buddhism.

Currently, I am reading a very interesting book, Thinking Fast and Slow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow). The writer, a Noble laureate, explains numerous experiments he had conducted and discusses a two-agent model of the human brain.

One of these agents is called System I, the agent which reacts without thinking. This is the part that is responsible for all human biases. There is a range of fascinating examples in the book which shows how biased we all are all the time. Then we have System II which is the more thoughtful and calculating agent. However, our brain is lazy. Hence, it rarely engages System II.

This reminded me of the Buddhist model of the brain. Thee is our "monkey mind" which is always jumpy. It can never settle or seat in peace. (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/buddha-how-to-tame-your-m_b_945793) This is so similar to System I. And then we have the "noting mind" the part which can observe things without any bias. This is so similar to System II. https://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/transcribed-talks/noting/

Found on Bing from www.clipartpanda.com | Cartoon clip art, Monkey ...

Thursday, June 18, 2020

Does Pooh love honey?

Pooh: I love honey. Don't you Piglet?
Piglet: But, Pooh, I brought honey for you last night. You did not eat it!
Pooh: Ah, I already have had two jars of honey by the time you came.


Does Pooh-bear really love honey? If he really loved it, he would have been able to eat it even after having two jars. I know, some of you may be thinking it is simple. It is the famous law of diminishing return. When you have more of something that does not give you as much fun/money any more!

Why does that happen?
Because we no more crave for it. Because we feel saturated. Because it does not feel as good anymore.


Ancient oriental philosophers took this argument to the next level. They suggested that we do not love or hate things or people or events. We love or hate the sensations created in our senses due to these things or people or events. When Pooh has had two jars of honey, the next jar is not going to create the same sensation as the first jar.



So does Pooh love honey? No! Pooh loves the "sensation" that honey creates. Replace honey with anything else that creates the same sensation, Pooh will love that as well. The same logic goes for hate as well.



My father discussed this with me a few weeks back. I felt numb thinking about it. It is as if, and correctly so, there is an opaque layer between me and the things/persons/events I am interacting with. I can not directly interact with objects/persons/events. They create sensations in my sense-organs and those sensations are the things I react to. (Note that in Oriental philosophy certain parts of the brain are also sense-organs as it senses different thoughts!)



When I say "I like xyz", it means nothing; and when I say "I hate xyz", it means nothing! How do we live in this opaque cocoon? Especially when we know that our feelings are impermanent (or anicca/anitya)? After one night, Pooh will get back his craving for honey.



This will need further musing. But as of now, there are two observations.


  1. First of all, we do not love/hate the objects/persons we interact with. We love/hate the sensations these objects/persons create in our sense-organs.
  2. Secondly, these sensations are fleeting and highly impermanent!




11 Food-Loving Cartoon Characters

Monday, May 11, 2020

Fear of Missing Out: Abhinibesha

Most people think that the fear of missing out (FoMO) is a result of the new age digitization and social media. But if we go by the phrase itself, it can be defined in a much broader manner. It can also be linked to the indecisiveness we experience when presented with many equally alluring options in life. For example, imagine that as a new graduate you got a job in the nation's defence research wing and another job in a private company making microchips! This is a bifurcation where you have no idea which one is the better choice. Each one will soon bifurcate into very very different lives. Once in, you can not come back and go the other route. You have missed a complete life! That is really tough FoMO! Neither of these lives is worse or better. Both are equally enrichening. And that makes it worse. You know that both routes are equally beautiful BUT different. This is unlike the choice Neo (in the movie Matrix) had. What do you do? You feel scared and stunned. 

Let us take another point of view. Let us try to understand what is fear. Why are we afraid of anything? I think the musing may get easier if we take a really big fear, the fear of death. The fear of death is so symbolic in oriental philosophies and psychology that they have a separate name for it abhinibesha.  Why are we afraid of death? I think this is mostly because of the massive number of unknowns that come after death. No one knows. The life I am so used to ends. And I have no idea what comes next. Absolutely no idea. I do not want to lose my grip on the known. Two main things bother me. Will the things I love so much continue? Will the things I hate come later? Because in real life I am not happy exactly. I still have things/experiences I do not like; and I still have things/experiences I like too much to lose. Researchers have found exactly the same (i.e. unhappiness) as a major cause of social-media-based FoMO (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563213000800).  But most of us are unhappy to different degrees. Hence, we all have FoMO. And the most apparent FoMO is the fear of death! By extrapolation, I hypothesize that those who take jumps in life should have less FoMO and less fear of death. It can be career/continent jumps or literal jumps (as done by adrenalin junkies). 

So how do I get rid of FoMO? Or at least not get bewildered by FoMO? (Of course, here FoMO means all kinds of FoMO starting from missing your friends's Facebook status to missing a whole new job to the fear of death.) I guess the simplest and easiest step might be to ride a roller-coaster! Experience, observe and immerse in the feeling of fear. Maybe force yourself to hop careers and countries. Who knows these experiences may teach us lessons that make us less fearful of changes and less fearful of the unknown and the missed messages!

PS: I am fully aware of the Yogic expounding of the fear of death and how it is linked to the false perception of individual personality and free-will. However, though I know it, I have not "felt" it yet. So for now I will rather keep jumping to deeply understand fear!

(Note on the image: This is the image of the phase space of a chaotic system. It shows how bifurcations lead to never repeating tracks. Once you take one path, your life is completely unique! )

Annual Review of Chaos Theory and Bifurcations and Dynamical ...


Wednesday, April 29, 2020

Life is a goat!

There is an interesting story that my grandfather told me a long time back. There was a man with a few goats. He was once going to the big market in the nearby village to sell one of his goats. Three charlatans saw him and made a plan! One of them came to the man and told "Hi, brother. How are you? Where are you going with this dog?". The man rebuffed him telling "This is a goat you blind one!". After a few minutes, another of the three guys came to the man and told "Hi, brother. How are you? Where are you going with this dog?". This time the man was not so sure. He told "Don't bother me. This is a goat!" After some more time, the third guy came to the man and told  "Hi, brother. How are you? Where are you going with this dog?". The man was really pissed. He thought he made a mistake. Maybe this is actually a dog. Then he left his goat and went home! 

A few days back a very melancholic thought struck me. Most of the elderly people I know in the west personally never give up the pursuit of money! Even at the age of 80 and something they would not do a single thing without payment. That made me think, will I also become like this when I am old? Is this the side-effect of living in the west? In some ways, it was like the WTF-moment that prince Siddhartha experienced. Prince Siddhartha (who later became the Buddha) grew up in a household where his father took every care to make sure that Siddhartha does not come across any of the difficulties of life. One day young Siddhartha was travelling through the capital and he saw a sick person by the road. He asked his charioteer, "who is this person and why is he suffering so much"? His charioteer, Channa, told, "Prince, this guy is sick". Then the prince asked, "will I also become sick?" Channa told, "yes my lord". 

Looking at the elderly in the west made me think, shall I also become like this when I am old? When so many people tell that life is a dog then you tend to doubt your own convictions. You tend to think that everyone will be like this when she/he grows old; stuck in the rat race of money and name.

A few days later, I was talking to an ex-student of mine who is teaching English in China. He was telling me this interesting experience of him where he came across a beggar playing an instrument in a busy street of China. While he was comprehending the beauty of a frail old mand completely lost in his own music in the midst of the chaos and cacophony of a busy Chinese street, for a few seconds time stood still. I have felt such fleeting feelings at times as well. Suddenly, I realised that even though most people say so, life is not a dog. Life is a goat! 

Vector Cartoon Illustration Of Cute Muslim Man Pulling The Goat ...

Thursday, April 09, 2020

Positive News During the Covid-19 Pandemic


One of the great quotes from Hollywood is "hope is a beautiful thing" (from Shawshank Redemption). In these times of #covid19pandemic we do need positive news to keep up our hope in the future and our hope in mankind. 
I have taken it upon myself to collect five positive news every few days and share with people I know. 

Due to my background, most of these will be related to #innovation and #engineering. You may follow me on Tweeter (@mister_mangu) for these updates. 
Else you can visit this blog where I maintain an archive of these pieces. #fightagainstcorona #positiveenergy #goodnews #covid19southafrica #covid19news 

05-May-2020

  1. The science barometer has reported record-high confidence of people in science (in Germany). Would it mean that post-Covid19 society would be a more pragmatic and logical society with less scope for hate and more for truth and love? https://www.wissenschaft-im-dialog.de/projekte/wissenschaftsbarometer/wissenschaftsbarometer-corona-spezial/ 
  2. In my last list of positive news, we read about EU's initiatives towards running united research to fight Corona. A global fundraising was started on the 4th of May. It has already met its $8 Billion target!  #UnitedAgainstCoronavirus https://researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-europe-innovation-2020-5-8bn-covid-19-r-d-target-met-with-1bn-from-horizon-2020/
  3. The virus is mutating. But contrary to Hollywood mutation these virus mutations are making it weaker. It also makes a little bit of common sense. Mutations are mostly supported by the organism's chances of survival. A virus survives longer if the host lives. Hence, the death of a host is a bad grade for the virus! So as they get better at survival strategy they should get less lethal. Again, I am no virologist. I may be absolutely wrong. But mutations are happening and they are making the virus weaker. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8286181/Coronavirus-mutation-one-sample-signal-getting-weaker.html
  4. Following the logic of double-negative, here is a piece of positive news based on the disproving of negative news! News around reinfections were false-positives! https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/may/03/coronavirus-reinfections-were-false-positives-says-who-technical-lead-video
  5. And some nice stats as always. The total number of recovered cases is now more than 1.1 million. Rate of increase of cases in Germany has been less than 1% and in the USA has been less than 3% for ten days. And Singapore is still one of the best warriors with less than 0.09% death rate. And yes, 80-90% of the cases in India are asymptomatic!


26-April-2020

  1. Accepting freebies is a shame in traditional Indian culture. Some people still believe in it. Some migrant labourers in Rajasthan were quarantined in a local school. In return for the care and free-food, they painted the whole school building! https://thelogicalindian.com/latest-news/migrant-workers-paint-quarantine-school-sikar-20760 #dignity 
  2. In spite of jaw-dropping numbers, the infection increase-rates are actually easing in the USA. The rate of increase in the numbers of new cases has consistently stayed below 5% for the past two weeks
  3. Many might have missed the phenomenal news that the world's first portable MRI machine has got FDA approval during the Corona outbreak. Such instruments will be crucial in fighting pandemics. https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/fda-approves-worlds-first-portable-mri-scanner/
  4. Innovators are working round the clock in enabling us to fight the pandemic. Here is an excellent list of such innovations. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-covid19-pandemic-gadgets-innovation-technology/ #innovation While we are at it, let me also state that entrepreneurs are the happiest people working! https://www.forbes.com/sites/elainepofeldt/2014/03/05/survey-entrepreneurs-are-happier-than-employees/#544cdaea62d9
  5. Disasters unite. Global disasters unite the globe! Major world organisations are inviting all countries and organisations to join hands in the fight against Covid_19. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_731  #UnitedAgainstCoronavirus

17-April-2020

  1. Germany has been one of the most successful nations in terms of tackling Covid-19. In an important meeting, held on 15th April, the Chancellor discussed how the restrictions shall slowly be eased. They aim to open the schools on 4th of May. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52299358 
  2. In spite of jaw-dropping numbers, the infection increase-rates are actually easing in the USA. The rate of increase in the numbers of new cases has consistently stayed below 7% since 11th April 2020. 
  3. In spite of the growing number of new cases, the effective number of patients under treatment (i.e. infected - recovered) has stabilised in some of the worst-hit nations like Spain and Italy. It actually has been decreasing in Germany. 
  4. A major aim behind any drastic measures like border-sealing or lockdown must be to buy time to get prepared. Finland closed borders to its worst-hit state of Uusimaa on 28th March. They have been preparing the medical facilities in other parts so long and shall mostly lift the blockade next week. https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/daily_govt_not_planning_to_extend_uusimaa_border_closure/11303010 
  5. The government of Odisha (in India) took an out-of-the-box step in dealing with Covid19. They employed Mr. Subroto Bagchi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subroto_Bagchi), the ex-director of a successful IT company (Mindtree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindtree) to manage the state's response. During the ongoing lockdown, Bagchi's team has been working in exemplary manner and now they have prepared 36 new hospitals in all major cities of the state to face the waves when the lockdown is finally lifted.    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/odisha-to-have-36-dedicated-hospitals-for-covid-19-patients-soon-report-2212462


09-April-2020

  1. Around 10,000 people recovered from Covid-19 just today (8-9 April 2020) in Spain and 13,000 in Germany.
  2. Govt. of India has launched an aggressive funding scheme (of around US$ 7.5M) for startups planning to work on developing products to enable the fight against Covid-19. https://isba.in/cawach/ 
  3. Round the world, countries, agencies and philanthropists are offering a massive amount of funding to entrepreneurs to help fight Covid-19. https://sciencebusiness.net/news/live-blog-rd-response-covid-19-pandemic 
  4. Finland, the happiest country in the world, seems to have been doing what every other country must be doing, i.e. to have a reserve of medical accoutrement. Apparently, they touched their medical reserve for the first time since WW II. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-finland-masks.html 
  5. Companies around the world have been working on making easy to use inexpensive test-kits to facilitate large-scale testing. E.g. 
    1. Brazil: https://tinyurl.com/w6zhy8c 
    2. India: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52064427 
    3. Finland: https://tinyurl.com/rybcoro 
    4. Germany (Siemens): https://tinyurl.com/u3lwcj9 
    5. South Africa: In SA, they will use the existing TB test-equipments to speed up the testing. https://tinyurl.com/wqmbuar


 06-April-2020

  1. “Rate” of growth of the infection has been consistently decreasing in the USA for the past 15 days. https://tinyurl.com/uxh3fja
  2. India to double the number of ventilators by June using inhouse made ones. https://tinyurl.com/wkvj29d 
  3. Odisha govt. (in India) sanctions $70,000 to feed stray animals during the lockdown. https://tinyurl.com/vmk68cr 
  4. Doctor drives 540km to drop a patient home during the lockdown in India. https://tinyurl.com/wjfrkhs
  5. A rising number of startups working to fight #covid19 https://tinyurl.com/tys9w8j 


Monday, February 24, 2020

Existential Nihilism to Buddhism!

Usually, I do not talk in terms of abstract concepts or any -isms. However, when there are pertinent terms describing what we have in mind, it may be a good idea to at least mention them as a homage to the great thinkers who thought similar thoughts. 

Last evening, while discussing the meaning of life, something became quite apparent to me. The question of "what is the meaning of life" has been bothering me for a while. It bothers one more when one is about to make some decisions (be it a simple one like whether to go for a movie or to the museum or a seemingly more complicated one like which career to choose). 

The search for the meaning of one's life is closely tied to the fundamental search of the "why" ("he who has a why to live for can bear almost any how"...Nietzsche).
The more we search for a meaning in life and the creation, the more we see the lack of one. What if life has no meaning? What if life has no purpose? What if there is no bigger divine plan?  The meaningless of life followed by personal definition of meaning is something that the great thinkers of existential nihilism (like Nietzsche, Sartre and Camus) tried to muse upon. 

Let us take the thought process one more step forward. What happens when we realise that everything is meaningless; every action is meaningless; every event is meaningless? Then in such an understanding where everything is meaningless, nothing is more or less meaningful. The very word "meaningless" implies that there are things which are meaningful. Without the existence of things which are (relatively) meaningful, the word "meaningless" will have no existence! Saving a dying person becomes as meaningful or meaningless as boiling your soup. Every action gets the potential of making us equally happy. 

Let us take one more step. The word meaningful or meaningless also has a strong sense of time embedded in it. I want to focus on meaningful things, things with a "lasting" impact. Meaning of an action or event is always measured by what impact it will create in the future. When everything and every event become of similar importance (or the lack thereof) then "time" won't bother us much. Anything we are doing at present is as meaningful (or meaningless) as anything that may come in the future. So we focus on the present engulfed by what we might be doing. When everything is the same (like every part of a fractal) what is the need of thinking of different parts? Rather, we can just give our undivided focus to the current.  That is one of the major philosophical teachings of oriental thoughts (be it Buddhism or Zen or Taoism or Vedantism).

However, it is one thing to follow a logical flow of thoughts and another to live it. It is one thing to understand it and another to "feel" it. 

Image result for fractals

Sunday, February 16, 2020

A little bit fat!!

In the second half of 2010, I spent six months in Australia where I was hosted by a lovely family with four kids. The second oldest of them, Alice (name changed) was two years old. The family was kind enough to invite me to all their weekend family outings to expose me to the Australian culture. Usually, we would be travelling in one of their big vans with enough space for all of us. This one time, my hostess had an accident and was given a smaller car to drive for a week (by the insurance company). That weekend when we were going out it was me, Alice and her elder brother, James, in the back seat. Space was not enough and James was not happy. Alice tried to calm him down and told something very deep. She told, "what can Amit do, he is just a little bit fat"! Many times we are so quick to judge people and then complain. My father always says that we should try to see the "truth" about objects, persons and events. If we see the truth, we shall see the whole story and there shall be left no avenue to complain! (Please mark that we shall not have to try not to complain, it just would vanish!)

In spite of all this, I complain; sometimes a lot. At least I used to feel so. Today one of my ex-students (who is currently in Ireland)  told that he was talking to a South African origin lady (who has been working in Ireland for few years). Apparently, this lady mentioned that Cape Town is a stunningly beautiful place but the crime and load-shedding are ruining it. My student wanted to know if she was correct. He told, "you have never complained about Cape Town"! I asked, "have I ever complained about any place"? Then I suddenly realised that I do complain. But I complain about people. Never have I complained about places. I have lived in 8 cities so far and I have loved each one of them. 

I felt happy and satisfied with my progress! Out of the three things mentioned by my father (objects, persons and events) at least I have been non-judgemental towards one. Now is the time for me to try to see the truth behind the behaviour of persons as well. Why are they or their actions or their words making me inconvenient (when they do)? Once I "see" the truth I may just notice that (figuratively) they are just a little bit fat!





Saturday, January 04, 2020

What do I deserve?

On the ninth year of my stay in Cape Town, I finally decided to stay over the new year. And, if you are in Cape Town over the new year, you must not miss the Cape minstrel carnival (also known as Klopse in the cape). This is a carnival with character. People make camps by the route of the parade since the previous night. Families gather with chairs, beds, cards, snacks, ice-boxes with drinks and babies! Nothing works on time (as if by design and desire) may be to let people have bit more of this fun and family time.


The first group marched around 3pm and there was a gap of 30 minutes after that. Bored of standing we meandered around and bumped into the Iziko Slave Lodge Museum (https://slavery.iziko.org.za/slavelodge). It was such a serendipitous step.  Suddenly so many things became crystal clear. I am sure coming from the carnival (with a rich slave-history) bolstered the surreal nature of the experience.

The first thing that I realised was why tears started flowing from my eyes when the dancing minstrel groups marched past me. I saw the following quote in the museum "joy in spite of everything". Such a powerful line. I knew that the marching people (mostly) come from the poorer sections of the region and face innumerable hurdles on a daily basis (starting from poverty and bad schools to close proximity to drug and gun crimes). Seeing them dancing in spite of everything.... was a very powerful emotion. Then Steve Biko's line gave me goosebumps.



While going through the history of slavery I bumped into the following story. There are catalysts in life which slap you off to deeply feel certain obvious things which you have been talking about but never really deeply realised. This was a lady who was given less importance than cutlery. And thousands of such have lived, experienced life and died building the nation of South Africa. Any hiking trail I walk on, any garden I stroll in, any building I touch, any monument I visit, nothing is untouched by these unsung heroes. And no; I won't feel pity for them as their contribution is monumental. I won't try to feel empathy as I know I can never. I can only #respect.  

This made me think about my own home country India (for that matter any country). Every civilisation, every country, every culture is built on the bones of unsung common people (mostly heavily exploited). I have done nothing in my life to deserve the sweet fruits of their toil. I have done nothing to be worthy of their sacrifices and lives. This realisation flooded me with an avalanche of humility.

I came out of the museum overwhelmed with respect and humility.  The realisation that I deserve none of these beautiful things was powerful. With the air of extreme gratefulness and the tears of joy, I enjoyed the rest of the carnival with character!